The parts are interchangeable. The A2's are pretty reliable guns, but trashed mags can cause them to have malfunctions also. By my estimates, the tip of the bullet first hits the barrel extension about 1/3 of the way up the respective feed ramp on the barrel extension. If you consider this article useful, share it with anyone in need! Clear editor. You can modify the upper, but bear in mind that the un-anodized aluminum surface will be very soft and prone to wear if your particular bullet hits it frequently. M4 feed ramps are not an original design, they were designed for the M4 In fact, the . There's a 7 degree difference between standard and M4 ramps. The tip of the cartridge rarely comes into contact with the upper receiver. practical_man Recommend using a gunsmith this route too if you are not comfortable. With the bcg moving that much faster, the magazine springs were having a hard time supplying the rounds fast enough, AS WELL AS the tips of the rounds were digging into the feed ramps and catching. Would not feed to save its life! I checked what I have now. If it was some flat top + 16" FSB barrel id just swap upper/barrel, but this is a little more challenging to do that with. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. -The Barrel MUST be removed from the Upper Receiver in order to use this Kit.-Never cut or polish the aluminum M4 Feed Ramps in your upper receiver! However, if youre wanting to rebarrel a non-M4-cut upper with an M4 feed-ramp equipped barrel, or going the other direction: you have a new upper thats been relieved to fit with the M4 ramps, and a non-M4-cut barrel extension, and that wont work! And that is the important thing! I didn't forsee that we'd ever see the day when replacement parts would be so hard to get. No need to alter the upper. You cannot paste images directly. I think you will find that the tip of the bullet clears the M4 cuts in the upper receiver by a wide margin. Full M4 feed ramps start on the upper and continue onto the barrel extension. I picked up a side charging upper from Sundevil last year. M4 can better explain their benefit, although they help with more reliable feeding. The reason I decided to write about this topic at all was because there are some mil-spec features advertised on aftermarket parts that arent even really mil-spec. pictures would help. Brevity matters. Anything else you want to share about M4 clones would be appreciated, especially when it comes to a reliable rifle. This is why you can use a barrel with an extension with M4 feedramps with a receiver that does not have feedramps, but you cannot use a receiver with M4 feedramps with a barrel with an extension with rifle feedramps. However, its rare now to find an upper receiver or a ready-to-go barrel that doesnt have the M4 cuts. You must log in or register to reply here. The leading cause that leads to the development of the M4 feed ramp is the gas pressure from the carbine gas system that is increasing along with a high cyclic rate. I found the article very informative. But, as with anything else, this work can go too far. By Yamil Sued August 6, 2021. Hasn't misfed yet, through initial break in up through 1k rounds, and that's mag length ammo. They are better! If I can correct an issue before it's an issue that is preferred. You can run M4 cut barrels with rifle receivers, but not the other way around as it will create at catch that can hang up the bullets. Barrel is medium SPR profiled barrel, threaded with a 1/2-28 thread for the AE brakes and collar. If a barrel comes with the feed ramps could I take them off? Gas block area is .750 diameter. It's not worth changing the barrel extension on an already finished barrel, getting the new barrel extension to line up correctly with the gas port will probably cost more in gunsmithing/machining fees than buying a new barrel. I would just make sure to order rifle upper with rifle barrel extension or M4 upper with M4 barrel extension. So, what youre saying is that an M16 upper (not M4 cut) will work with either barrel, but an M4 cut upper will only work with an M4 cut barrel. The dimensions are different between the two, so theyd have to change some things to the feed ramps dimensions. I can assure you that most mods that deviate from the original design aren't 100% reliable. The best case is to have both an upper and barrel that have the feed ramps. The closest brand new barrel you are likely to find is the Windham Weaponry 20 inch 1/7 twist chrome lined barrel. These Mil-Spec M4 feed ramps are part of the original CNC manufacturing process. The magazine lips cannot move, so with these larger diameter cartridges, the bullet tips down lower about the centerline of the bore (half of the diameter increase to be exact). Anodized red parts. All Rights Reserved. I'd get jams from bullets hitting the back of the upper so I took a small round file and made the M4 ramps in the upper. Jams and misfires. The M4 receiver feed ramps are cut at a steeper angle and, as a result, extend down into the receiver wall. In military situations, it is advantageous for rifles to function with damaged, worn, or less than ideally serviceable magazines. Does it make a big difference? Reliability is the main concern for me when I re-barrel this rifle. "It will last 5k rounds instead of 4k. BEFORE YOU GO MODIFYING IT, check your headspace.I have a Gibbz upper in my junk drawer because the upper -- for some reason -- wouldn't allow a perfectly good bolt (as checked by Criterion) to headspace correctly on a Criterion barrel, with the bolt installed in the carrier. Personally, I would sell the rifle upper and buy an M4 upper - the cost will be small and you will end up with a more satisfactory end product. All uppers are assembled cleaned and tested before shipping. I wouldn't be concerned at all with any wear after modifying an upper receiver. i have the rifle barrel. Thats true overall and good to keep in mind. First of Im not a gunsmith or firearms professional. 30 cal. I'd rather just pay the gunsmith to make it work than hunt down another barrel/upper if possible. It is a tightly machined and polished piece of metal which guides a cartridge from the top of the magazine into the firing chamber of the barrel. can the barrel extension be bought individualy? This is one time it's better to go a little too far than to leave an edge for the . Not all mil-spec features advertised on the product information are the real mil-specs. I've been thinking about doing sort of an "Early Diemaco C8 carbine" clone build with a C7 style upper receiver. What is an m4 feed ramp? /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. So I'm working on my first build, and I'm a little confused. so it is better to have an upper reciever that's designed for non-m4 feed ramps since you can put in standard barrels right? All we do is dremmel it to match - we dont remove it and grind to any specific angle. I like all my guns to be reliable. Barrel Length: 16" Barrel Material: 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Barrel Finish: Phosphate Barrel Profile: M4 Chamber: 5.56 NATO Twist Rate: 1 in 7" Extension: M4 Gas System: Carbine-Length Gas Block Type: Low Profile .750" Diameter Upper Receiver: Forged 7075 T6 Aluminum Receiver Style: M4 Flat top with feed ramps Receiver Finish: Hardcoat Anodized The best case is to have both an upper and barrel that have the feed ramps. While I've got everything apart, I'm thinking I just want to put an M4 barrel extension on. check out the. Thats receivers, bolts, and on down the list of the 100 or so parts that can make up an AR-15. Then you can get a regular rifle barrel for the upper with no ramps. again, Thanks. If your magazines are set up correctly, and the feed lip edges polished smooth, each round fed from the magazine will go directly into the chamber. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. In short, if you have a Dremmel you can do it yourself. All this basically means is that the ramps continue from the barrel extension down through the upper receiver tonthe magazine. is the m4 feedramp common in barrel extensions? This has been my concern with modifying the aluminum parts. All NFA rules apply. 308 m5 using m4 feed ramps, which I belive are for the smaller round like. Required fields are marked *. Read Now. M4 Barrel Extension (M4 Feedramps) $22.95 (4 reviews) SKU: Barrel-Extension-M4 Stock Status: Quantity: Add to Wish List Description For your AR15, M16, M4. The M4 cut extends down beyond the edge of the barrel extension (has a scalloped appearance), and a correspondingly deeper cut in an M4-spec upper receiver effectively extends the ramps downward (theyre lowered). Moreover, telling someone that an extension can be modified, while not a lie, is nothing more than mental masturbation when your post contains a caveat for having the knowledge and proper tools. In general, all you need to understand is that the M4 feed ramps include the barrel extension and upper receiver. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. 's blog. The upper I want to rebarrel is modified for Service Rifle competition so it's not quite as cheap as buying another $89 upper from Aero. An older-version (or A2-style) feed ramp is cut only on the barrel extension itself (top). LanceRiley, You can post now and register later. M16s and M16-A1s run at 750 rounds per minute in full auto. I was planning on using a Daniel Defense 14.5 pencil barrel, because like the C8 they are CHF, lightweight profile, and .750 at the FSB (And also because quality carbine pencil barrels with .625 gas blocks seem to be in short supplyor else I'd just build a 723 clone.) . Contents: 1 Diamond Burr (For Colt 2 Stage Ramps) 1 Cut Lube (For Diamond Burr) 1 Bullet Stone (For Reshaping . Don't ever put non M4 ramped barrel on a M4 ramped upper receiver. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Insert the barrel and sharpie the cut area, then use the right bit on a dremel. This gave it a longer point for the magazine to allow the rounds to come out of the magazine and feed into the chamber. Add M4 cuts to Barrel Ext $15.00 We can modify your rifle extension to match the M4 cuts in an upper receiver. 1 is a standard and the other for use with m4 feed ramp barrels. Mind shooting me a link where I can pick on a C marked A1 carry handle for $150? So, lets glide down these lines below to erase your misconceptions about them. If you have a bolt that you would like to use you are welcome to ship it to us for accurate headspace. Id just get one for that barrel and find a barrel with m4 extension for the upper you already have. SKU: BCM-URG-M4-16 Features: M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension Caliber: 5.56 NATO Barrel Length: 16in Barrel Style: Standard Handguard: None BCM M4 Handguards (Double Heat Shield) - Black + $15.00 PKMR (Polymer KeyMod Rail) Carbine Length - Black + $24.95 PKMR (Polymer KeyMod Rail) Carbine Length - Flat Dark Earth + $24.95 Stock Status: Out of stock Higher pressure equte to parts (bcg, buffer, buffer spring, ROUNDS, etc) experiencing much higher wear/tear. if you are OK with 3MOA, you might go 20,000 rounds! Some argue that, factually, its a step to enable a smoother feeding. I guess it depends on what your relationship to the necessary shop activities is. I should have taken my own advice for once. what I fear the most is having an m4 ramp upper and then getting a barrel with a rifle ramp. UPPER RECEIVER: AR-15 Mil-Spec Machined out of 7075-T6 Forged Aluminum, M4 Feed Ramps, Cerakoted Magpul Flat Dark Earth (FDE) Color with Forward Assist and Ejection Port Cover Installed BARREL: 22 inch, 223 Wylde Caliber, 4150 CMV, 1:7 Twist, Heavy Bull Barrel Profile, Straight Fluted, Melonite/Nitride Finish - made for us by Tactical Kinetics HAND It's near impossible to replace the carry handle upper I have these days, and finding a colt chrome lined 20" light weight barrel isn't a walk in the park either. Feels like a silly question now that it makes sense. A feed ramp is a basic feature of many breech loading cartridge firearm designs. Here you can see an upper with "rifle" feedramps. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Thanks! Change the angle so that the ramp ends at the exact same point. The ramp angles are different and changing the profile of the extension doesn't make it something it isn't. If I was concerned with precision, I would seek out parts from well-known gun makers and customizers Baer comes to mind, Hart barrels, etc etc. There is no way to make a carbine barrel extension out of a rifle barrel extension, period, full stop. Any body need a anchor for a very small boat? A4 Complete Upper Receiver. Machined from 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel and feature a QPQ corrosion resistant finish and QPQ coated M4 feed ramp extension. Mind shooting me a link where I can pick on a C marked A1 carry handle for $150? Shorter length equates to much higher pressure in the upper receiver. Home Firearms Figuring Out Feed Ramps. This includes M4 feed ramps, barrel nut, front sight tower and sight post, and -28 threads for a muzzle device. M4 Feed ramps on barrel extensions are a solid example. I suggest you get a rifle receiver. Looking to spend $180-250 (depending on condition, forge mark and if a rear sight is included or not.) If you ever have an issue, then look at getting a correct barrel for the upper. If you want precision, dont look to the mil-spec gun, look to the one that is popular in 3-gun competitions, at Thunder Ranch, etc. - The Shooter's Log, 2012 SHOT Show Special Report: Del-Ton TRX Rifle and More! I am glad to know that I need to look for changes in design and the differences in the A2 and A4 feed ramp / rails. While this gun is a more of novelty build than a "serious use" AR, I intend to use good parts and want it to run as well as my other ARs. It was in the last few issues of SAR. Proper maintenance and lubrication. How long your barrel "lasts" depends on what your accuracy threshold is before you decide it is too bad to keep using. BUT, I DO NOT TRUST MY LIFE TO THAT WEAPON. The M4 cut extends down beyond the edge of the barrel extension (has a scalloped appearance), and a correspondingly deeper cut in an M4-spec upper receiver effectively extends the ramps downward (they're lowered). The upper is designed to have two levels of top rails for mounting of night vision in front of scopes. The first reason is that they are, indeed, better. Feedramps, proper staking of castle nuts, forward assist (yep went there)S-happens seen it. Upload or insert images from URL. I'm planning on replacing my forearm with a Larue 13.5. Now move move the on deck cartridge forward to the 3/8 of inch position and again note the position of the tip of the bullet in relationship to the barrel extension. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Load a magazine with two or three rounds, lock the bolt group back on your rifle or carbine and insert the magazine. Product Description Surplus Colt 14.5" SOCOM, carbine length gas system barrel from Colt. Powered by Invision Community, M4-style barrel extension with Rifle-type upper. There are several, but Steve and the guys at ADCO in OH are one such option (they use the Dremel method, but they do it right as I have seen several first-hand examples of their work and its performance after the fact). So the engineers lowered the feed rampa into the receiver. Here's some info from Randall Rauch aka www.ar15barrels.com, if your barrel extension has M4 ramps you should have an upper receiver also with the ramps. Reach in through the ejection port and slide the on deck cartridge about 1/4 inch forward and observe the tip of the bullet in relationship to the barrel extension. 410 stainless is also harder and more corrosion resistant than conventional 416 stainless found in other commercially available precision barrels. The difference between standard feed ramps and M4 ramps is easy to see. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. A4 Complete Upper Receiver - 7075 Forged A4 Flat Top Upper Receiver - M4 Feed Ramps Includes: - Add to Cart. I recently picked up a barrel that I thought had M4 feed ramps, but it doesn't line up with my M4 feed ramp upper. Add 3% to the total cost for credit card purchases. For this test, I used a Colt upper with M4 feed ramps and a SOCOM heavy 14.5 barrel, just like what is used in the military. I have looked and looked and looked. In case My barrel is rifle ramp it won't be so bad after all. A couple of times I ended up with the OK set up from the picture above. It's an interesting question. Looking For Bear Creek Arsenal Barrels Review? Somwhere in the 1990s I believe, Colt designed the M4 feed ramps, where they took some of the material out of the upper receiver, cut two little ramps in it and then cut the ramps in the barrel extention a little further forward. When I function tested it the first time with live half-jacketed rounds I had the worst FTF jam I have ever experienced. The rifle-platform M16s dont use them. You can put a M4 barrel and non-M4 receiver together, but you can't mismatch them the other way. 2. As suggested, its best to match the upper and barrel extension no worries that way. You have a rifle barrel. I'm lookin for a clear definition as to what they are, and what they do to enhance a given rifle's performance? Seems counter intuitive to recommend an M4 cut upper, especially if the barrel Im looking at has the rifle feed ramp (not M4 cut). This USGI modification was done to both the barrel extension and the upper receiver, creating a longer and steeper feed ramp. I'll probably build a pistol out of this one. can you buy feed ramps individually? Caught a deal on a matched barrel and bolt. I like getting another Upper idea then you could end up with two rifles! I've seen that pic, it is a good reference. You need to match up barrels to receivers for optimum performance. The angle is going to be key, alot of people attempt to mimic the angle of the barrel feed ramps, this is incorrect. It's not worth changing the barrel extension on an already finished barrel, getting the new barrel extension to line up correctly with the gas port will probably cost more in gunsmithing/machining fees than buying a new barrel. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Seems like it should work to me, but be a real challenge to keep clean and be damned ugly to boot. I too built a .458 SOCOM carbine . Edited April 27, 2014 by Mark Gale They were not intended to be super long range man killers. We have four combinations here: The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! Then the manufacturer discontinued the barrel. You CAN modify a rifle/A2 barrel extension to an M4 style extension, but it isn't always the best way to go unless you just have to do it. So I'm thinking I ought to have M4 ramps in the gun because based on what I've read: Rifle receiver+M4 barrel = "OK" but not ideal. I just need a little guidance on this and I'm having trouble getting good results from Google. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Again, youll find plenty of videos on spooling up hand grinders to remedy feed ramp and ejection port issues with these larger cartridges, but I strongly suggest going factory-done aftermarket. If your mag catch is at Spec height, you should not have a problem with an M4 cut barrel in a rifle receiver. http://www.ar15fornoobs.com/wp-content/uploads/feedramps.jpg. 3. Upper Receiver, A4, Flat Top, USGI, Numbered, AR-Stoner Upper Receiver Stripped AR-15 A3 Flat-Top Matte, Black River Tactical 16 Cold Hammer Forged Optimum Barrel Accuracy Evaluation. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The barrel Throat is the second most critical component after angles and should be polished with utmost care. Modern Series Barrels. Whether they materialize or not depends on the direction of the mismatch. Its a miracle! Description Genuine 14.5" SOCOM, carbine length gas system barrel from Colt. I can still use the combination. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Can I use a barrel with M4 feed ramps with an upper that isnt M4 matched? Also, barrel life is relative. All things being equal and having used both weapons extensively, Id rather have the feed Ramps. so im thinking I might as well just get the unramp upper. Related: If you are using a Ar rifle, best green laser sight is good choice for hunting. The mil actually only specs M4 feed ramps for use in its M4s. Can someone recommend or point me in the right direction of a good quality upper receiver for an SPR build that does not have M4 feed ramp cuts in it? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The barrels also had to be modified. I've modified barrel/receivers even before M4 cuts came out and done some receivers when the barrels had cuts. In most cases the ramps only help during full auto mode while cycling at a high rate. Sorta. The manufacturer said they had sold hundreds of barrels with out problems reported. Pasted as rich text. Display as a link instead, The M4 style feed ramps and barrel extension provide consistent feeding and the matte black Manganese Phosphate finish resists external corrosion and oxidation. You can run M4 cut barrels with rifle receivers, but not the other way around as it will create at catch that can hang up the bullets. By the time you made it work you spent more time, money, and effort than if you just bought a new barrel or upper. Its highly recommended to put any AR-platform firearm together with a matching M4 barrel extension and upper receiver set. BUT if you find someone to grind your feed ramps and they do a good job, post it up and let us know. Come join the discussion about racing, builds, pro mods, hot rods, events, turbos, nitrous, superchargers, and more! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Create Account; Log Out ; Log In ; Wishlist 0; Shopping Cart 0; Home; About I'd rather not spent the money to get it cut to the specific length I need, FSB installed, etc just to have it immediately not work and have to sort out then or start from square one with a new barrel. Does NOT include pin Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Either way is good and both types work great with semi auto only guns. I have done the same, protect the Barrel extension with a layer of electrical tape and carefully file or Dremel the ramps into the aluminum receiver. I prefer them. I built the upper using a Mega upper with a Compass Lake 18" barrel. Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. What's the difference? ago Costs about $40-50 to have the feed ramps reprofiled from what I can gather. M4 ramps help in feeding in for carbine in full auto. Barrels are Douglas 416 stainless steel with 1-7 twist with M4 feed ramps The extension is the part at the end of the barrel that fits inside the upper. Is getting it as part of the upper better? i have an extra brand new M4 barrel extension ramp to replace a rifle ramp. Some gun owners believe that the M4 ramps can help for some of the larger-diameter cartridges in use. Not saying a really good gunsmith cant do it, just that theres a bit of an involved process. You need to match up barrels to receivers for optimum performance. The Shooter's Log, is to provide informationnot opinionsto our customers and the shooting community. 338 and others not the .308 76251 or 6.5 creedmore which o think should have a.30cal feed ramp.? Since the M4 barrel is one and a half inches shorter than the minimum legal barrel you can install in an AR15, the M4 gas tube will be, of course, smaller. DSA has fat top, Mueller, non feed ramp uppers for $40. However the DD 14.5 are ideally meant to mate up with M4 style upper receiver feedramps. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Shopping with us is absolutely safe - you never have to worry about credit card safety when shopping here Share your latest AR build or photos from the range with #RangeDayFriday for a chance to win a new firearm! By my estimates, the tip of the bullet first hits the barrel extension about 1/3 of the way up the respective feed ramp on the barrel extension. Inadequate knowledge about these feed ramps can lead to lots of problems with barrels because they are essential parts to guide the bullet up and into the chamber. One new winner* is announced every week! Watch a video about our Modern Series AR barrel: which is bad combo. For the purposes of this chapter, we'll call the new one the M4, and the old one the AR. The M4 was the first (allegedy) carbine length gas system. Which Model Colt 1911 is For Me? Use this M4 Barrel extention with M4 feedramps. Im an old vet, now retired and looking to build some ARs as a hobby to keep me doing something that I will enjoy. With the increased use of larger-diameter cased cartridges, the M4 feed ramps are proving their values when using them in those cartridges.

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