Second time $500. The contents of this site may not be republished, reprinted, rewritten or recirculated without written permission. Nazret Gebremeskel (Naz) is an unemployment claims examiner with the District of Columbia. Michael Deneen is retired military and now works for the federal government in the office of Personnel Management. At Timeshares By Owner, we are proud to offer an extensive database to help you find the Timeshare Vacation Property of your dreams. NOPE! Relying on the . I was contacted by David again and he started to tell me that I had to trust him over what is written in the contract. timeshares by owner lawsuit. The industry's own surveys show almost the exact opposite of the UCF study, suggesting 85 percent of all timeshare owners are happy with their purchases. Scam and cheating! Trust me an AM radio show with no one listening is a waste of time. The asking upfront cost was more than I could afford but by the end of the pitch we had reached an agreeable amount. The timeshare owners allege that Amber Chisum acted as a dual Real Estate agent on behalf of Wyndham and did not allow them to contact their own Real Estate agents to check the validity of the contracts. No materials from this website may be copied, reproduced, republished, uploaded, posted, transmitted, or distributed in any way. They sent 2 ridiculous rental options (Not in my resort or occupancy limits). The lawsuits have been filed against timeshare companies that have sold their timeshares for an exorbitant price. Dennen v Wyndham is a prospective class action lawsuit brought against Wyndham by timeshare owners Anna Marie and Michael Deneen, Erin and Paul Munoz, and Nazret Gebremeskel, for themselves and all other similarly situated timeshare owners. George v. Westgate is a mass tort action in which 39 timeshare owners, represented by Jessica Stewart of The Abrams Firm, allege that Westgate sales representatives misrepresented to them that Westgates timeshares are good investments that can be resold for a profit, misrepresented the ease of reserving accommodations, and gave them false advice regarding estate planning. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. I have checked and rechecked emails and no joy. Share your photos and videos with others to prove the truth of your words. Please take my words as the absolute truth. . timeshares by owner! The lawsuit aims to force timeshares by owners of companies to stop selling their timeshares. The FTC and state consumer protection agencies have shut down dishonest timeshare resellers for bilking timeshare owners out of millions of dollars. The timeshare owners allege that Wyndham made owners sit for 4-9-hour sales presentations and were induced to enter into contracts in reliance on Wyndhams false claims, such as that timeshare owners would have the ability to bequeath their property to their family members. Among other things, the consumer protection lawsuit says that Reed Hein advertised a 100 percent money-back guarantee to some 32,000 clients, but that many did not get refunds even if the. At that point I decided that I had been scammed. I would encourage those whom have been defrauded, like myself, to file a criminal complaint with the Orlando County Sheriff's Office under Florida Statue 817.034 under the Florida Communications Fraud Act, false misleading and deceptive advertising and sales. I give him my credit card info stating that I will dispute any charge that was not authorized by me and I am not authorizing any charges until I see the contract and then sign it. 75, Palm Beach, Aruba, 265 East Harmon Drive, Las Vegas, NV 89109, 2021 All rights reserved. They also claimed that the buyers were unable to return their money to them because they were unable to make payments on their contracts. I should have read the reviews first but they keep you on the phone telling you how busy they are and it will go fast and how happy you will be blah blah blah. Complaint against Timeshares by Owner, 8578 Palm Parkway, Orlando, Florida, 32836-6432, United States for Bad business practices, "I just feel ripped off.", Contract / Agreement / Promise dispute - PeopleClaim - 1653771 Said for additional fee would put it in all top advertising magazine to get better exposure, I paid him signed another contract. He said I need $1500 for marketing. The company is also accused of misleading advertisements and of stealing money from customers. They allege that there were no reservations available through the developers booking systems, even while non-timeshare owners had access to plenty of availability online. I have been passed around from one person to another in their company and all they ever do is try to get even more money out of me. They're just finishing paper work. The case alleged that DRI used its power within the timeshare owner's . So they never actually had a buyer although I was willing to bring my asking price much lower. He alleges that Wyndham misrepresented to him that the timeshare could be sold for a profit, that he could rent out his timeshare to cover all his costs, that he could buy airline tickets and rental cars with his points, and that by using a Wyndham Barclay card he could offset his costs by accumulating points. When we refused to give any info. On the 20th of last month, former class members, alongside their representation, plead with the 11th circuit court to revive their dismissed ruling and reopen the arranged Marriott lawsuit immediately. I see one positive comment about this company. He would lower fee since nothing else worked. Once again I read him riot act, said no. Naz was transported off the property, purse checked and given no way to return without the Wyndham sales representatives assistance. RUN! Then harassing phone calls began from Jennifer, and today from Taylor. All she offered me was a boil plate answer saying there are no guarantees blah, blah, blah. (opinions to this review) Suing bluegreen! Your email address will not be published. They said they would however let me give it up and walk away with nothing. Super fast, friendly, with dogged determination. As a result, timeshare developers have been held accountable by federal and state courts for consumer fraud and for retaliating against employees who blow the whistle on timeshare sales practices that constitute consumer fraud and concealment. 10000 Turkey Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32819, 17805 US Highway 192, Clermont, Orlando, FL 34711, Carretera a Barra de Navidad, Km. Somehow, I got in contact with Timeshares by Owner. Sent him another fee. Our professional staff is totally committed to the success of our program! Having a timeshare attorney on your side can also offer practical, material benefits when it comes to timeshare cancellation. 6:19-cv-01553, Buxton et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01555-PGB-DCI, Campbell et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01556-RBD-EJK, Cockrum et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01557-RBD-GJK, Coffman et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01558-PGB-GJK, Comer et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01559-WWB-LRH, Dalzell v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01560-WWB-EJK, Deasy et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01561-WWB-DCI, de Mets et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01562-WWB-LRH, Demmer et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01563-CEM-DCI, Einfeldt et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01564-RBD-DCI, Fay et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01565-RBD-EJK, Flory v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01566-WWB-GJK, Gilbert et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01567-PGB-DCI, Grant et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01568-CEM-DCI, Jeffers et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01570-PGB-GJK, Liberatore v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01572-PGB-DCI, Linder-Bombeck et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01576-PGB-GJK, Magley et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01577-CEM-DCI, Martin v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01590-WWB-EJK, May et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01591-CEM-DCI, Nielsen et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01592-WWB-DCI, Pilley et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01593-RBD-GJK, Reed v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01594-PGB-LRH, Rushing et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01595-RBD-LRH, Schaefer et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01597-CEM-DCI, Schwertz et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01598-CEM-DCI, Sapp v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01599-CEM-DCI, Spears et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01600-PGB-EJK, Spor et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01601-WWB-EJK, Stewart et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01602-PGB-EJK, Suenaga et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01604-CEM-DCI, Sadler et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01605-CEM-DCI, Walker v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01606-RBD-DCI, Williams et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01607-WWB-GJK, Wilson v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01608-WWB-GJK, Wright et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01609-RBD-DCI, Austin v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01610-PGB-EJK, Blessing et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01613-PGB-EJK, Chavez v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01614-PGB-GJK, Greene et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01615-PGB-EJK, Johnson v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01616-CEM-DCI, Porter et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01618-RBD-GJK, Sheffer et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01619-RBD-DCI, Young et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01620-CEM-DCI, Anderson v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01646-PGB-GJK, Chandler et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01647-CEM-LRH, Mason et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01648-CEM-DCI, McDermott et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01649-RBD-LRH, Kriens Sr. et al v. Wyndham 6:19-cv-01650-RBD-EJK, US DISTRICT COURT, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, In these related lawsuits, timeshare owners represented by Aubrey Givens allege that Wyndham misrepresented that they had equity in their timeshare interest that they could roll into a new purchase, that their timeshare interest had significant real value, and that they could rent their timeshare to cover maintenance fees. Someone from TSBO called and gave us an ad number finally. No need to feel creepyit's a public record. Your email address will not be published. This company is AWFUL. We reported on them several years ago after their acquisition by Orange Lake Resort and wanted to follow up and summarize some of the more important issues Silverleaf owners are still facing. Westgate Owner Rewards This page was last edited on 4 November 2022, at 17:12 (UTC). If you don't know them personally, you may be able to get an owners' directory from the resort. Every couple of months someone calls asking if I have had any offers. In Jan/Feb 2022 was called by Bryan ** and paid another $2800 to be in the "Show Case". They claimed the assessment was illegal. Rescission laws in most states allow new timeshare owners to return their timeshares to Vacation Village and receive a full refund. DuBois and his law partner, Zach Naert, are known for their lawsuits against. When I asked what I thought was a realistic legitimate question, she laughed at me. I will continue my diligent pursuit of this matter in the form of a Civil Law Suit against the salesman that made the false claims and the company for not refunding my money despite several requests to do so. End of phone call. Harold Blue will call and act like your best friend, give you his license number, make you feel crazy for doubting them, tell you the complaints are about old programs they used to do, blah blah blah. I sent them $2000.00. May 14, 2014. The timeshare owners claim fraud, negligent misrepresentation, breach of contract, breach of the covenant of fair dealing, civil conspiracy, and violation of the Tennessee Timeshare Act. They even vilify the process of canceling their contracts and trying to discredit those who seek it out. However, after 7 monthsnothing. People PLEASE READ the CONTRACT! 16. Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. They didn't, I didn't. In addition to misleading advertising, many timeshares by owners are forced to pay more than they bargained for. White to answer my email that he very conveniently did not receive along with the information forwarded to him by Brandi Peet for further investigation into the "I already have a buyer" business practices. All of the complaints here are absolutely not the case from my experiences. important that timeshare owners get the name of the person calling, emailing or making the solicitation (e.g., the real estate broker or salesperson they purport to be), look them up on the DRE website, locate a phone number for the licensee through the telephone company or a genuine phone directory, call the licensee at that number and verify . Second mistake. Click here to get notifications about new complaints of Timeshares By Owner. Insinuating I am not nice because I don't want to put any additional money into a product which is non-compliant. . Our professional staff is totally committed to the success of our program! in gangster hideouts in wisconsinBlog by ; timeshares by owner lawsuit . Whether or not you owe cash or are behind on your upkeep costs, realize you do have choices! Timeshare owners have a right not to be defrauded by false or misleading statements about the nature of a timeshare purchase, and a right to obtain court-ordered rescission of timeshare contracts that are unlawful, oppressive, unconscionable and unfair. They won the lawsuit and Westgate Resorts were ordered to pay $600,000. In fact, they have completed 5 rental contracts for me in the last 3 days. They are going to do some checking and will call me back in 5 minutes. Many names are tossed around, such as RCI Resorts, Westgate, Wyndham, Timeshare Exit, or Redweek, but we will show you how the scams work exactly. The owners sued Coral Resorts after it levied a one-time assessment to raise $3.7 million for improvements to the property, according to court records. The agreement gave customers store discounts and other promotional items if they attended Bluegreen timeshare presentations. I got caught in a scam by Timeshares By Owner/Timeshares Direct Inc. 7 Benefits Of Choosing Workers Compensation Insurance, Unusual Driving Offences in the UK That You Probably Didnt Know. Don't want to search? In August of 2020, Norman Zwicky filed a class action lawsuit against Diamond Resorts for its inflated annual fees. He called. Contact our friendly team today! I am in the process of selling my time share with this co. My payment was guaranteed to me no later than Friday morning on 1/11/19. As a result, timeshares by owner lawsuits are expensive. The consumers allege fraud, breach of contract, breach of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing, violation of Florida, Hawaii, Nevada, New Jersey, and South Carolinas Timeshare statutes, and violation of Florida, Hawaii, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, and South Carolinas consumer statutes. Timeshares By Owner is not a. Now that I have seen the posting, it appears to have any number of inaccuracies. While this type of suit is not uncommon, it is best recommended when the timeshares by owner companies are a part of a class of people. Dont believe anything they say. The rentals have been an aid in my yearly maintenance at mt RCI property and the customer service department is always helpful during bookings. Then they get you to pay more money with promises of how much you will get. They tell you about a radio show. As shown by the lengthy list below, frustrated timeshare owners and former timeshare developer employees have repeatedly and in many cases successfully brought lawsuits against timeshare developers based on common law fraud and abusive sales tactics, including elder financial abuse. Run from these fraudsters. She told me she could sell my timeshare and stated a figure. I would not recommend HGVC to anyone that is thinking of a timeshare. This review was chosen algorithmically as the most valued customer feedback. Fee to put my timeshare on website to sell, Too many calls asking for more money while no action on my account, My properties sold or phone calls for me to pay more stopped, Read full review of Timeshares By Owner and 1 comment. Two and a half hours later they finally call back. Third time they called and I told them I am not buying any more advertising. The company has a history of false and misleading advertising, inducing timeshare owners to pay upfront fees for services they do not receive. I told him timeshares by owner was a scam and send back my money. Run dont walk away from these people. In each of these related lawsuits brought by attorney Aubrey Givens on behalf of Wyndham timeshare owners, the consumers allege causes of action including fraud, unjust enrichment, breach of contract (duty of good faith and fair dealing and failure to provide reservations as represented), and violation of Floridas Vacation Club and Timesharing Act. Angell et al v. Wyndham, Case No. A recent timeshare lawsuit reveals a host of timeshare scams. Marriott OceanWatch is not listed on the list of Marriott resorts when you pull it up by resort name. They are absolutely a parasite feeding on the people who are desperate to sell unwanted timeshares. Wyndham timeshare owners have filed a class action lawsuit against the company, accusing it of lying to customers about benefits and subjecting them to aggressive marketing tactics to get them to purchase useless points. Timeshares By owner is a scam. Please stay clear of this company and I only wish I had done my homework and found this out before falling for this scamHow do they get away with this? Why does a "legitimate" business have to operate under so many different names? Will call back. He became very loud and belligerent to my husband and me, even calling him a liar. morning 1/20/19 and there is still no money in my account and as of Fri. they are Not returning my calls. They have been slandering the cancellation industry to hide their illegal activities while ignoring their complaints. Would not recommend timeshares by owner. There are currently 1,657 ongoing complaints against them by timeshare owners, 1,117 of the complaints are focused on misleading and deceptive sales tactics. Timeshare owners have asked a Florida federal court to sanction Marriott Ownership Resorts Inc. in a proposed class action claiming the timeshare company and its insurer duped them into invalid real estate deals with Orange County's help, saying it intentionally withheld "massive amounts" of documents during discovery. All Rights Reserved. I (stupidly) went against my gut and paid the initial amount (I want to say around $800) and NEVER received ANY offer. It's why they were so willing to pay Bass Pro $40 million to settle their differences. After spending over $3,000 with them. More calls from Dave saying I owed another payment and that I had an offer of 15000, I said, "Sell it." A surefire mix for success. I am embarrassed to say how much they have taken me for. (855) 851-5000. I paid money for them to sell my timeshare at Summer Bay close to Disney World in Florida. Use an Attorney. A timeshare attorney has a legal and ethical obligation to care for you and you alone, not a company that cares about a profit. You know THEY WON'T DO THAT. I too had no luck with responses from Kevin A. Fast forward to FEB/March 2020. All to my monetary benefit. The plaintiffs can prove that they are victims of deceitful advertising practices by paying thousands of dollars in upfront fees before receiving any service. 9-28 talked to receptionist. Youll pay your initial amount for your timeshare property because hes going make it sound amazing, guaranteeing theyll sell your property quickly because the market is so hot, and youll be making money on rentals in the meantime. I was told by their own employee that its almost certain a listing with their company will never produce a sale pf your property. His wife Ann works for Assessors Office in Will County, Illinois. Text is available under the Creative Commons . On September 10 th, 2020, one of the powerhouses in the vacation ownership industry "Diamond Resorts" officially filed a lawsuit against 13 defendants. In the Complaint, Lapping alleges that Wyndham supervisors instructed him and other sales representatives to sell prospective customers timeshares they could not afford, to deceive them about the cost of the timeshares, and to deceive them about how they might return the timeshares to Wyndham if they wanted Wyndham to take the interest back. The timeshare owners allege that after they complained to Wyndham about their dissatisfaction with Wyndham, Wyndham retaliated by freezing their accounts and advised they would be not able to use any current reservation of their timeshare interests or make any additional reservations. The category has seen some of the highest property tax. Las Vegas-based Diamond Resorts has succeeded in obtaining a permanent injunction against the remaining members of a Tennessee firm it claims defrauded timeshare owners by promising them a way out . Havent heard from them since. They claim to have an A+ rating with the BBB, but thats only because of the responsiveness (and honestly ridiculousness) of their VP. beware, be smart and stay clear of this company, Read full review of Timeshares By Owner and 3 comments, Read full review of Timeshares By Owner and 2 comments, 16 years' experience in successful complaint resolution, Each complaint is handled individually by highly qualified experts, Last but not least, all our services are absolutely free. They keep pressure on for at least a week. Go away." This is considered illegal and a class action lawsuit is necessary to obtain restitution for the money the consumer paid. First and foremost, you must understand that you cannot just file a class action lawsuit and be done with it. For years, Dave Ramsey touted, endorsed, and advertised Timeshare Exit Team's services as a trusted company that his followers could turn to when they no longer wanted their vacation ownership. Alternate Business Names: Timeshares By Owner, Timeshares By Owner of California, Timeshares By Owner of Central Florida, Timeshares By Owner of Daytona Beach, Timeshares By Owner of Flagler Beach, Timeshares By Owner of Jacksonville, Timeshares By Owner of Miami-Dade, Timeshares by Owner of Orange County CA, Timeshares By Owner of Volusia County. Don't want to search? WOW! One of the best Vacation Rentals, Real Estate business at 8810 Commodity Cir #16, Orlando FL, 32819 United States. The timeshares by owner lawsuit were initiated by an elderly consumer who purchased her timeshare from a company that lied about its fees. Awful company and customer service. only to ask me for another $3200, which they did not get.. A truly incredible milestone! Left message to call me back. In addition to naming Wyndham, the timeshare owner names as defendants Jessica Creech and Matthew Chodak, the alleged Wyndham sales representatives who made the claimed misrepresentations. Another option (and the one we recommend) is to connect with a timeshare exit . Class Action Lawsuits Against Timeshares. Although not accreditted, we maintain an A+ rating with the BBB. about us to his boss. We advocate that timeshare companies should be subject to a strict code of ethics and transparency in their sales techniques., Terms & Conditions 2019 Coalition to Reform Timeshare, State Deceptive and Unfair Practice Statutes, State Consumer Collection Practices Statutes. I am sure in my heart that the positive comments have been written bu agents of this company. We are now usually leaving timeshares out of trusts, or even redeeding the properties out of trust, to have an option to exit at death. I did not get text about offers. In Clark v Wyndham, timeshare owners Terina and Bryan Clark, represented by US Consumer Attorneys, have brought a lawsuit on behalf of themselves and the general public, claiming that Wyndham violated Californias Unfair Competition Law and the California Timeshare Act when Wyndham sold them and financed for them real property interests without the requisite real estate license. in the timeshare and vacation industry. 6:19-cv-01551, Brauch et al v. Wyndham, Case No. Almost 10 million households own some sort of timeshare, according to the American Resort Development Association. topclassactions.com. I knew what I signed and admit I stupidly paid the fee, but I am determined to not let anyone else fall for this scam! But they are not done with me yet. They contacted us by phone by reason of posting on the Complaints Board. It was too much money for me so she passed me on to Eric Rosenberg who was higher up in the company at the Daytona office. From my position as one of their clients, I greatly appreciate their efforts. Our content is intended to be used for general information purposes only. v WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP, CASE # 3:18-cv-00263, RASHAD and AMY FULCHER v WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP, CASE # 3:18-cv-00264, SHIRLEY HELMLY v WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP, CASE # 3:18-cv-00266, DENNIS and SHARON MILES v WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP, CASE # 3:18-cv-00267, LINUS and SUE SCHNARR v WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP, CASE # 3:18-cv-00268, HARVEY and SHARON THOMAS v WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP, CASE # 3:18-cv-00269, WILLIAM and CAROLYN WILSON v WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP, CASE # 3:18-cv-00271, US DISTRICT COURT, EASTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE, The Coalition to Reform Timeshare is dedicated to reforming the timeshare industry. Find Reviews, Ratings, Directions, Business Hours, Contact Information and book online appointment. He said he HAD to give info. Based on her pitch, we should sell quickly because of the low amount I was asking. Good luck on getting they to sell your. He told me if he didn't sell it in 3 weeks he would to an auction but that didn't happen either. Couch v. Wyndham is a lawsuit brought by timeshare owners Lawrence and Linda Couch, Wayne and Gayle Mauer, Edward and Linda Sherwood, and Gerald and Pamela Van Etten, represented by attorney Martin Holmes. By the way, it has been two months now and I am still waiting for Mr. Kevin A. I say yes and am told they will call me right back. Timeshares by owner lawsuits are an extremely common type of class action suit. I have lowered the price of my listed properties to $ 3000 and it still does not sell. A radio show which airs in the heart of Florida is a waste of time. Depending on how much the owner wants to advertise his timeshare, they ask for an upfront fee that goes from $450.00 to $600.00 or even more. Timeshares By Owner is not affiliated with Wyndham Resorts, its affiliates or any other Timeshare Resort or Developer. In Drake v Wyndham, timeshare owners Woodward and Joann Drake, represented by attorney Mitchell Sussman, allege that Wyndham and their agent, Amber Chisum, committed fraud. The conversation did not end well. They told me my property in Florida was worth $ 28, 000 but as you see listed with them at $ 3000 it has never got one single response. We asked to be released and refunded and were denied. Lawsuits Against Timeshare Exit Companies to Move Forward Last week, U.S District Judge Gregory A. Presnell denied two separate requests for dismissal from timeshare exit companies facing lawsuits filed against them by Wyndham Vacation Ownership. By entering your email, you agree to sign up for consumer news, tips and giveaways from ConsumerAffairs. . The company issuing the companies for their alleged unfair practices. Man called 13 times in 20 min. In McKnelly v. Wyndham, husband and wife timeshare owners represented by attorney Aubrey Givens allege that through the years they have paid Wyndham at least $230,000 including mortgages, maintenance fees and interest. I am unclear on their process and if it works. They are bunch liars and scam artists. I realize that there was no First I was told my "high in demand" timeshare will be sold easily and I made them the payment for $800, after asking for their lowest price. . Howard v Wyndham is a lawsuit brought by timeshare owner, Aaron Howard, represented by Aubrey Givens. He did not advise it could be done by sending even more money with them. I left it with, YOU will not get any more money from me. But zero reasonable offers in 10 months and zero dollar return on my investment just evidences that these people are a sham. I signed up with company in December of 2020. SCAM! They talked a good game and I was completely taken in by the southern charm of my sales lady. I am being subjected to high pressure sales. First time it cost me $800. Read the other reviews and see the pattern. A link has directed you to this review. I received a call from HGVC owners center, Michelle is who I specifically spoke to.

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